File:  [NetBSD Developer Wiki] / wikisrc / users / schmonz / pkgsrccon2014.mdwn
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Sun Jun 22 13:50:25 2014 UTC (6 years, 11 months ago) by schmonz
Branches: MAIN
CVS tags: HEAD
what spz and I have learned so far

    1: [[!template id=note text="[[!toc levels=2]]"]]
    2: 
    3: # Thursday
    4: 
    5: ## Drinks: Doric Arch
    6: 
    7: * `jaapb`
    8: * `alnsn`
    9: * another fellow named Alex
   10: * `gavan`
   11: 
   12: # Friday
   13: 
   14: ## Dinner: Edinboro Castle
   15: 
   16: * `jaapb`
   17: * `mlelstv`
   18: * `spz`
   19: * `prlw1`
   20: * `wiedi`
   21: * `sborrill`
   22: 
   23: # Saturday
   24: 
   25: * Calum
   26: * Youri
   27: * `abs`
   28: * `justin`
   29: * `jaapb`
   30: * `alnsn`
   31: * Sevan
   32: * `bsiegert`
   33: * `mlelstv`
   34: * `tron`
   35: * `spz`
   36: * `prlw1`
   37: * `wiedi`
   38: * one fellow I didn't recognize and didn't get to meet
   39: * `sborrill`
   40: * `morr`
   41: 
   42: ## Benny Siegert: "BulkTracker"
   43: 
   44: * [BulkTracker](http://bulktracker.appspot.com) is WIP to parse
   45:   `pkgsrc-bulk` reports and present them in an organized way
   46: * Uses lots of trendy stuff:
   47:     * Google App Engine
   48:     * Ruby, Node.js, Twitter Bootstrap
   49:     * side comment: pkgsrc is missing some trendy stuff
   50: * [Source code](http://github.com/bsiegert/bulktracker)
   51: 
   52: ### Side discussion with Youri and Calum
   53: 
   54: * how can we induce people to choose pkgsrc over Homebrew?
   55:     * most people are looking for an OS-specific package manager
   56:     * they don't realize they should look for cross-platform
   57:     * I've learned that I should
   58:     * we need to attract OS X users on their own terms
   59:         * what if we managed /Applications, from source or not?
   60:     * likewise for other platforms
   61:     * what if we branded pkgsrc differently for each platform?
   62:     * also concentrate on binary package experience
   63:     * `pkgin` is a real nice user experience
   64: * how are people finding their OS X binary packages?
   65:     * screenshots they post on [/r/unixporn](http://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn)
   66: 
   67: ## Lightning talks
   68: 
   69: ### David Brownlee: "Pretty tabular data without much effort"
   70: 
   71: * jQuery
   72: * [example](http://www.netbsd.org/~wiz/perl.html)
   73: * see also <http://sync.absd.org/www>
   74: 
   75: ### Youri Mouton: pkgsrc for new developers
   76: 
   77: * used NetBSD and `pkgin` without knowing what pkgsrc was
   78: * saw `pkgin` supported on other OSes (e.g., Minix)
   79: * and OS X (a main OS he uses)
   80: * started manually making packages for `pkgin`, not realizing
   81: * _then_ understood it was pkgsrc being used to make packages
   82: * a few months doing bulk builds
   83: * there isn't a tutorial on how to start as a pkgsrc developer
   84: * submitted ports to pkgsrc-wip
   85: * people usually find MacPorts, Homebrew, Fink, and _then_ maybe `pkgin`
   86: * this is too bad, they ought to be finding us
   87: * Youri and Calum's project: <http://saveosx.org>
   88:     * they're doing gpg-signed packages
   89: * people ask "where can I find documentation" and there isn't a great answer
   90: * writing clear, clean docs for new users and developers would be great
   91: * we all think jperkin's writeups and docs on this are terrific
   92:     * can we have them?
   93: * tron: bootstrap experience for MacPorts may be nicer
   94:     * schmonz: should be possible to build a Mac `.pkg` from bootstrap
   95: * abs: three target demographics:
   96:     * use binary packages
   97:     * build from source, use options, don't want to fix things
   98:     * developers
   99: * this underscores the need for user-editable wiki
  100: * design patterns for pkgsrc: e.g., how to fetch from a certain git commit
  101: * hey, let's take some time as a group and merge `pkgsrc.org` into
  102:     `wiki.n.o/pkgsrc/`
  103: 
  104: ### Jaap Boender: OCaml packages
  105: 
  106: * OCaml has a build system akin to Haskell's "cabal"
  107: * would like to factor it out, not sure how best to do that
  108: * (I was busy prepping a talk)
  109: 
  110: ### Justin Cormack: cross-compiling
  111: 
  112: * with `qemu`, non-native binaries can run from `./configure` and the like
  113: * syscall emulation
  114: * (I'm still prepping a talk)
  115: 
  116: ### Sevan Janiyan: Mac OS X `powerpc`
  117: 
  118: * GCC>4.4 doesn't build with XCode
  119: * he's managed to get up to 4.7 now
  120: * next thing GCC 4.8 and then he'll be able to build stuff
  121: * (I'm still prepping)
  122: 
  123: ### Matthias Scheler: world's best ISP
  124: 
  125: * XKCD 806
  126: * (still prepping)
  127: 
  128: ### Sebastian Wiedenroth: merging trivial fixes
  129: 
  130: * (still prepping)
  131: 
  132: ### S.P. Zeidler: packaging for TNF servers
  133: 
  134: * to be installed on TNF servers, it must be in pkgsrc
  135: * if it might ever run as root, it must be built on certain protected systems
  136: * `pkg_chk_(8)` for seeing what needs to be built
  137: * packages are built in `pkg_comp(8)` with sets matching arch and NetBSD version
  138: * then they're transferred to the destination systems and `pkg_add(8)`ed
  139: * vulnerabilities detected with `pkg_admin audit`
  140: * (missed some details)
  141: 
  142: ### Stephen Borrill: building products with NetBSD and pkgsrc
  143: 
  144: * based on 2007 EuroBSDCon presentation
  145: * thin clients
  146: 
  147: ## Amitai Schlair: "pkgsrc design goals"
  148: 
  149: * blah blah blah
  150: * slides forthcoming
  151: 
  152: ## Dinner: Gourmet Garden
  153: 
  154: * `jperkin`
  155: * Calum
  156: * Youri
  157: * `abs`
  158: * `justin`
  159: * `jaapb`
  160: * `alnsn`
  161: * Sevan
  162: * `bsiegert` and wife and cute kid
  163: * `mlelstv`
  164: * `tron`
  165: * `spz`
  166: * `prlw1`
  167: * `wiedi`
  168: * that fellow I didn't recognize and haven't gotten to meet
  169: * `sborrill`
  170: * `morr`
  171: 
  172: # Sunday
  173: 
  174: ## Hackathon
  175: 
  176: ### Ideas
  177: 
  178: #### Merge `pkgsrc.org` into `wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/`
  179: 
  180: 7. `cvs checkout wiki.netbsd.org:/home/pkgwiki/pkgsrc-wiki.cvs`
  181: 7. `cvs checkout wiki.netbsd.org:/cvsroot`
  182: 7. (./) Enable ikiwiki's localstyle plugin
  183: 7. (./) Copy pkgsrc-wiki's `local.css` into `wikisrc/pkgsrc`
  184: 7. (./) Catch up our custom `page.tmpl` to the basewiki's so localstyle works
  185: 7. Figure out how to apply the `pkgsrc.org` logo and header-links
  186:    template to everything under `wikisrc/pkgsrc/`
  187:     * We can wrap a _single_ page in a custom template [like
  188:       so](http://ikiwiki.info/ikiwiki/directive/pagetemplate/)
  189:     * We can modify templates for entire subtrees, but only [outside
  190:       wikisrc](http://ikiwiki.info/todo/multiple_template_directories/)
  191:     * Can we do it with CSS?
  192: 7. Where do we put the pages that are currently under `pkgsrc/`?
  193: 7. Copy content from the former to the latter (under `pkgsrc/`)
  194: 7. Preview at <http://wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/>
  195: 7. Point `{www.,}pkgsrc.org` at that HTML directory
  196: 
  197: #### Merge `blog.netbsd.org` into `wiki.netbsd.org/blog/` (or so)
  198: 
  199: 7. What was the original goal of powering the blog with Roller?
  200:     * To have a blog, and
  201:     * To counter the misconception that NetBSD doesn't run Java
  202:       well (or at all)...
  203:     * By demonstrating that NetBSD runs Java (and well)
  204: 7. How well have we met that goal?
  205:     * It's hardly obvious to passersby that the blog is Java-powered
  206:     * It's somewhat annoying to admin (and few of us know how)
  207: 7. Could we get more of the intended marketing benefit for less admin cost?
  208:     * Document loudly (e.g., on the wiki) how NetBSD supports Java
  209:     * Publish the blog with a CMS we already happily admin and use (ikiwiki)
  210: 7. Would anyone feel strongly opposed to the change?
  211:     * Not that we can think of (but we'll find out)
  212: 7. Would anyone be particularly happy about the change?
  213:     * Yes, some members of `admins` and `www`
  214: 7. What functionality is important to preserve when migrating?
  215:     * Data: articles and comments (stored as HTML in database)
  216:     * Metadata: dates, ordering, relation of comments to posts
  217:     * Feeds: feed URLs, UUIDs
  218:     * Media: include images in posts
  219:     * Commentspam: lock post after N months, no URLs, easy manual delete
  220: 7. What admin-facing functionality would change?
  221:     * Accounts: Kerberos suffices, no more blog-specific accounts
  222: 7. What do admins need to feel more comfortable with more ikiwiki?
  223:     * More documentation and training
  224: 
  225: #### Integrate `joerg`'s C wrappers
  226: 
  227: 7. `hg clone ssh://ftp.netbsd.org/~joerg/cwrapper`
  228: 7. Figure out how to get pkgsrc to use them
  229: 7. Commit on a branch
  230: 7. Do one bulk build on `HEAD` and one on your branch
  231: 7. Let's see how it went
  232: 
  233: #### `[schmonz]` Merge hard-coded pkgsrcCon 2013 site into `wiki.netbsd.org`
  234: 
  235: 7. Get a local copy of everything
  236: 7. Fix up template
  237: 7. Get previous sites to not break (maybe not editable)
  238: 7. Commit to `pkgwiki`
  239: 
  240: #### Fix `pkgtools/pkg_regress` tests
  241: 
  242: 7. The one that was still passing, do we believe that? Can we make it break?
  243: 7. The ones that are failing, can we understand them and make them pass?
  244: 7. Let's think of something else worth testing and write a new test for it
  245: 7. Do we feel good about adding more such tests and encouraging
  246:    everyone to do so? If not, what do we need to improve before we
  247:    do that?
  248: 
  249: #### Write an initial pkgsrc "product backlog"
  250: 
  251: 7. Starting with the work we need to do to make it easier to develop
  252:    pkgsrc internals
  253: 7. Further down, the developer features we want pkgsrc to have
  254: 7. Further down, the user features we want pkgsrc to have
  255: 
  256: #### Debug why just-in-time `su` sometimes doesn't
  257: 
  258: 7. It seems to be working just about all the time for nearly everyone
  259: 7. It doesn't work for `schmonz` in this case:
  260:     * `mail/qmail` (which is not `user-destdir`, only `destdir`)
  261:     * on Mac OS X 10.9.3 (haven't tried other systems)
  262:     * `make package`
  263: 7. It does work for `schmonz` in this similar-looking case:
  264:     * `mail/relay-ctrl` (also only `destdir`)
  265:     * on Mac OS X 10.9.3
  266:     * `make package`
  267: 
  268: [[!meta title="pkgsrcCon 2014: notes and scratchings"]]

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