Annotation of wikisrc/users/schmonz/pkgsrccon2014.mdwn, revision 1.11

1.9       wiki        1: [[!template id=note text="[[!toc levels=2]]"]]
1.3       schmonz     2: 
1.8       schmonz     3: # Thursday
                      4: 
                      5: ## Drinks: Doric Arch
                      6: 
                      7: * `jaapb`
                      8: * `alnsn`
                      9: * another fellow named Alex
                     10: * `gavan`
                     11: 
                     12: # Friday
                     13: 
                     14: ## Dinner: Edinboro Castle
                     15: 
                     16: * `jaapb`
                     17: * `mlelstv`
                     18: * `spz`
                     19: * `prlw1`
                     20: * `wiedi`
                     21: * `sborrill`
                     22: 
1.1       schmonz    23: # Saturday
                     24: 
1.9       wiki       25: * Calum
                     26: * Youri
                     27: * `abs`
                     28: * `justin`
                     29: * `jaapb`
                     30: * `alnsn`
                     31: * Sevan
                     32: * `bsiegert`
                     33: * `mlelstv`
                     34: * `tron`
                     35: * `spz`
                     36: * `prlw1`
                     37: * `wiedi`
                     38: * one fellow I didn't recognize and didn't get to meet
                     39: * `sborrill`
                     40: * `morr`
                     41: 
1.4       schmonz    42: ## Benny Siegert: "BulkTracker"
1.2       schmonz    43: 
1.4       schmonz    44: * [BulkTracker](http://bulktracker.appspot.com) is WIP to parse
1.2       schmonz    45:   `pkgsrc-bulk` reports and present them in an organized way
                     46: * Uses lots of trendy stuff:
                     47:     * Google App Engine
                     48:     * Ruby, Node.js, Twitter Bootstrap
                     49:     * side comment: pkgsrc is missing some trendy stuff
                     50: * [Source code](http://github.com/bsiegert/bulktracker)
1.1       schmonz    51: 
1.9       wiki       52: ### Side discussion with Youri and Calum
1.3       schmonz    53: 
                     54: * how can we induce people to choose pkgsrc over Homebrew?
                     55:     * most people are looking for an OS-specific package manager
                     56:     * they don't realize they should look for cross-platform
                     57:     * I've learned that I should
                     58:     * we need to attract OS X users on their own terms
                     59:         * what if we managed /Applications, from source or not?
                     60:     * likewise for other platforms
                     61:     * what if we branded pkgsrc differently for each platform?
                     62:     * also concentrate on binary package experience
                     63:     * `pkgin` is a real nice user experience
                     64: * how are people finding their OS X binary packages?
                     65:     * screenshots they post on [/r/unixporn](http://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn)
                     66: 
1.5       schmonz    67: ## Lightning talks
                     68: 
                     69: ### David Brownlee: "Pretty tabular data without much effort"
                     70: 
                     71: * jQuery
                     72: * [example](http://www.netbsd.org/~wiz/perl.html)
                     73: * see also <http://sync.absd.org/www>
                     74: 
                     75: ### Youri Mouton: pkgsrc for new developers
                     76: 
                     77: * used NetBSD and `pkgin` without knowing what pkgsrc was
                     78: * saw `pkgin` supported on other OSes (e.g., Minix)
                     79: * and OS X (a main OS he uses)
                     80: * started manually making packages for `pkgin`, not realizing
                     81: * _then_ understood it was pkgsrc being used to make packages
                     82: * a few months doing bulk builds
                     83: * there isn't a tutorial on how to start as a pkgsrc developer
                     84: * submitted ports to pkgsrc-wip
                     85: * people usually find MacPorts, Homebrew, Fink, and _then_ maybe `pkgin`
                     86: * this is too bad, they ought to be finding us
                     87: * Youri and Calum's project: <http://saveosx.org>
                     88:     * they're doing gpg-signed packages
                     89: * people ask "where can I find documentation" and there isn't a great answer
                     90: * writing clear, clean docs for new users and developers would be great
                     91: * we all think jperkin's writeups and docs on this are terrific
                     92:     * can we have them?
                     93: * tron: bootstrap experience for MacPorts may be nicer
                     94:     * schmonz: should be possible to build a Mac `.pkg` from bootstrap
                     95: * abs: three target demographics:
                     96:     * use binary packages
                     97:     * build from source, use options, don't want to fix things
                     98:     * developers
                     99: * this underscores the need for user-editable wiki
                    100: * design patterns for pkgsrc: e.g., how to fetch from a certain git commit
                    101: * hey, let's take some time as a group and merge `pkgsrc.org` into
                    102:     `wiki.n.o/pkgsrc/`
                    103: 
1.6       schmonz   104: ### Jaap Boender: OCaml packages
                    105: 
                    106: * OCaml has a build system akin to Haskell's "cabal"
                    107: * would like to factor it out, not sure how best to do that
                    108: * (I was busy prepping a talk)
                    109: 
                    110: ### Justin Cormack: cross-compiling
                    111: 
                    112: * with `qemu`, non-native binaries can run from `./configure` and the like
                    113: * syscall emulation
                    114: * (I'm still prepping a talk)
                    115: 
                    116: ### Sevan Janiyan: Mac OS X `powerpc`
                    117: 
                    118: * GCC>4.4 doesn't build with XCode
                    119: * he's managed to get up to 4.7 now
                    120: * next thing GCC 4.8 and then he'll be able to build stuff
                    121: * (I'm still prepping)
1.5       schmonz   122: 
                    123: ### Matthias Scheler: world's best ISP
                    124: 
1.6       schmonz   125: * XKCD 806
                    126: * (still prepping)
                    127: 
                    128: ### Sebastian Wiedenroth: merging trivial fixes
                    129: 
                    130: * (still prepping)
                    131: 
                    132: ### S.P. Zeidler: packaging for TNF servers
                    133: 
                    134: * to be installed on TNF servers, it must be in pkgsrc
                    135: * if it might ever run as root, it must be built on certain protected systems
                    136: * `pkg_chk_(8)` for seeing what needs to be built
                    137: * packages are built in `pkg_comp(8)` with sets matching arch and NetBSD version
                    138: * then they're transferred to the destination systems and `pkg_add(8)`ed
                    139: * vulnerabilities detected with `pkg_admin audit`
                    140: * (missed some details)
                    141: 
1.7       schmonz   142: ### Stephen Borrill: building products with NetBSD and pkgsrc
                    143: 
                    144: * based on 2007 EuroBSDCon presentation
                    145: * thin clients
                    146: 
1.9       wiki      147: ## Amitai Schlair: "pkgsrc design goals"
1.6       schmonz   148: 
1.7       schmonz   149: * blah blah blah
1.6       schmonz   150: * slides forthcoming
1.5       schmonz   151: 
1.8       schmonz   152: ## Dinner: Gourmet Garden
                    153: 
                    154: * `jperkin`
                    155: * Calum
                    156: * Youri
                    157: * `abs`
                    158: * `justin`
                    159: * `jaapb`
                    160: * `alnsn`
                    161: * Sevan
                    162: * `bsiegert` and wife and cute kid
                    163: * `mlelstv`
                    164: * `tron`
                    165: * `spz`
                    166: * `prlw1`
                    167: * `wiedi`
                    168: * that fellow I didn't recognize and haven't gotten to meet
                    169: * `sborrill`
                    170: * `morr`
                    171: 
1.1       schmonz   172: # Sunday
                    173: 
1.8       schmonz   174: ## Hackathon
                    175: 
                    176: ### Ideas
                    177: 
                    178: #### Merge `pkgsrc.org` into `wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/`
                    179: 
                    180: 7. `cvs checkout wiki.netbsd.org:/home/pkgwiki/pkgsrc-wiki.cvs`
                    181: 7. `cvs checkout wiki.netbsd.org:/cvsroot`
1.11    ! schmonz   182: 7. (./) Enable ikiwiki's localstyle plugin
        !           183: 7. (./) Copy pkgsrc-wiki's `local.css` into `wikisrc/pkgsrc`
        !           184: 7. (./) Catch up our custom `page.tmpl` to the basewiki's so localstyle works
        !           185: 7. Figure out how to apply the `pkgsrc.org` logo and header-links
        !           186:    template to everything under `wikisrc/pkgsrc/`
        !           187:     * We can wrap a _single_ page in a custom template [like
        !           188:       so](http://ikiwiki.info/ikiwiki/directive/pagetemplate/)
        !           189:     * We can modify templates for entire subtrees, but only [outside
        !           190:       wikisrc](http://ikiwiki.info/todo/multiple_template_directories/)
        !           191:     * Can we do it with CSS?
        !           192: 7. Where do we put the pages that are currently under `pkgsrc/`?
1.8       schmonz   193: 7. Copy content from the former to the latter (under `pkgsrc/`)
                    194: 7. Preview at <http://wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/>
                    195: 7. Point `{www.,}pkgsrc.org` at that HTML directory
                    196: 
1.10      schmonz   197: #### Merge `blog.netbsd.org` into `wiki.netbsd.org/blog/` (or so)
                    198: 
                    199: 7. What was the original goal of powering the blog with Roller?
                    200:     * To have a blog, and
                    201:     * To counter the misconception that NetBSD doesn't run Java
                    202:       well (or at all)...
                    203:     * By demonstrating that NetBSD runs Java (and well)
                    204: 7. How well have we met that goal?
                    205:     * It's hardly obvious to passersby that the blog is Java-powered
                    206:     * It's somewhat annoying to admin (and few of us know how)
                    207: 7. Could we get more of the intended marketing benefit for less admin cost?
                    208:     * Document loudly (e.g., on the wiki) how NetBSD supports Java
                    209:     * Publish the blog with a CMS we already happily admin and use (ikiwiki)
                    210: 7. Would anyone feel strongly opposed to the change?
                    211:     * Not that we can think of (but we'll find out)
                    212: 7. Would anyone be particularly happy about the change?
                    213:     * Yes, some members of `admins` and `www`
                    214: 7. What functionality is important to preserve when migrating?
                    215:     * Data: articles and comments (stored as HTML in database)
                    216:     * Metadata: dates, ordering, relation of comments to posts
                    217:     * Feeds: feed URLs, UUIDs
                    218:     * Media: include images in posts
                    219:     * Commentspam: lock post after N months, no URLs, easy manual delete
                    220: 7. What admin-facing functionality would change?
                    221:     * Accounts: Kerberos suffices, no more blog-specific accounts
                    222: 7. What do admins need to feel more comfortable with more ikiwiki?
                    223:     * More documentation and training
                    224: 
1.8       schmonz   225: #### Integrate `joerg`'s C wrappers
                    226: 
                    227: 7. `hg clone ssh://ftp.netbsd.org/~joerg/cwrapper`
                    228: 7. Figure out how to get pkgsrc to use them
                    229: 7. Commit on a branch
                    230: 7. Do one bulk build on `HEAD` and one on your branch
                    231: 7. Let's see how it went
                    232: 
                    233: #### `[schmonz]` Merge hard-coded pkgsrcCon 2013 site into `wiki.netbsd.org`
                    234: 
                    235: 7. Get a local copy of everything
                    236: 7. Fix up template
                    237: 7. Get previous sites to not break (maybe not editable)
                    238: 7. Commit to `pkgwiki`
                    239: 
                    240: #### Fix `pkgtools/pkg_regress` tests
                    241: 
                    242: 7. The one that was still passing, do we believe that? Can we make it break?
                    243: 7. The ones that are failing, can we understand them and make them pass?
                    244: 7. Let's think of something else worth testing and write a new test for it
                    245: 7. Do we feel good about adding more such tests and encouraging
                    246:    everyone to do so? If not, what do we need to improve before we
                    247:    do that?
                    248: 
                    249: #### Write an initial pkgsrc "product backlog"
                    250: 
                    251: 7. Starting with the work we need to do to make it easier to develop
                    252:    pkgsrc internals
                    253: 7. Further down, the developer features we want pkgsrc to have
                    254: 7. Further down, the user features we want pkgsrc to have
                    255: 
                    256: #### Debug why just-in-time `su` sometimes doesn't
                    257: 
                    258: 7. It seems to be working just about all the time for nearly everyone
                    259: 7. It doesn't work for `schmonz` in this case:
                    260:     * `mail/qmail` (which is not `user-destdir`, only `destdir`)
                    261:     * on Mac OS X 10.9.3 (haven't tried other systems)
                    262:     * `make package`
                    263: 7. It does work for `schmonz` in this similar-looking case:
                    264:     * `mail/relay-ctrl` (also only `destdir`)
                    265:     * on Mac OS X 10.9.3
                    266:     * `make package`
                    267: 
1.1       schmonz   268: [[!meta title="pkgsrcCon 2014: notes and scratchings"]]

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