Diff for /wikisrc/users/schmonz/pkgsrccon2014.mdwn between versions 1.2 and 1.11

version 1.2, 2014/06/21 09:37:33 version 1.11, 2014/06/22 13:50:25
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   [[!template id=note text="[[!toc levels=2]]"]]
   # Thursday
   ## Drinks: Doric Arch
   * `jaapb`
   * `alnsn`
   * another fellow named Alex
   * `gavan`
   # Friday
   ## Dinner: Edinboro Castle
   * `jaapb`
   * `mlelstv`
   * `spz`
   * `prlw1`
   * `wiedi`
   * `sborrill`
 # Saturday  # Saturday
 ## Benny Siegert: "Bulktracker"  * Calum
   * Youri
   * `abs`
   * `justin`
   * `jaapb`
   * `alnsn`
   * Sevan
   * `bsiegert`
   * `mlelstv`
   * `tron`
   * `spz`
   * `prlw1`
   * `wiedi`
   * one fellow I didn't recognize and didn't get to meet
   * `sborrill`
   * `morr`
 * [Bulktracker](http://bulktracker.appspot.com) is WIP to parse  ## Benny Siegert: "BulkTracker"
   * [BulkTracker](http://bulktracker.appspot.com) is WIP to parse
   `pkgsrc-bulk` reports and present them in an organized way    `pkgsrc-bulk` reports and present them in an organized way
 * Uses lots of trendy stuff:  * Uses lots of trendy stuff:
     * Google App Engine      * Google App Engine
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     * side comment: pkgsrc is missing some trendy stuff      * side comment: pkgsrc is missing some trendy stuff
 * [Source code](http://github.com/bsiegert/bulktracker)  * [Source code](http://github.com/bsiegert/bulktracker)
   ### Side discussion with Youri and Calum
   * how can we induce people to choose pkgsrc over Homebrew?
       * most people are looking for an OS-specific package manager
       * they don't realize they should look for cross-platform
       * I've learned that I should
       * we need to attract OS X users on their own terms
           * what if we managed /Applications, from source or not?
       * likewise for other platforms
       * what if we branded pkgsrc differently for each platform?
       * also concentrate on binary package experience
       * `pkgin` is a real nice user experience
   * how are people finding their OS X binary packages?
       * screenshots they post on [/r/unixporn](http://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn)
   ## Lightning talks
   ### David Brownlee: "Pretty tabular data without much effort"
   * jQuery
   * [example](http://www.netbsd.org/~wiz/perl.html)
   * see also <http://sync.absd.org/www>
   ### Youri Mouton: pkgsrc for new developers
   * used NetBSD and `pkgin` without knowing what pkgsrc was
   * saw `pkgin` supported on other OSes (e.g., Minix)
   * and OS X (a main OS he uses)
   * started manually making packages for `pkgin`, not realizing
   * _then_ understood it was pkgsrc being used to make packages
   * a few months doing bulk builds
   * there isn't a tutorial on how to start as a pkgsrc developer
   * submitted ports to pkgsrc-wip
   * people usually find MacPorts, Homebrew, Fink, and _then_ maybe `pkgin`
   * this is too bad, they ought to be finding us
   * Youri and Calum's project: <http://saveosx.org>
       * they're doing gpg-signed packages
   * people ask "where can I find documentation" and there isn't a great answer
   * writing clear, clean docs for new users and developers would be great
   * we all think jperkin's writeups and docs on this are terrific
       * can we have them?
   * tron: bootstrap experience for MacPorts may be nicer
       * schmonz: should be possible to build a Mac `.pkg` from bootstrap
   * abs: three target demographics:
       * use binary packages
       * build from source, use options, don't want to fix things
       * developers
   * this underscores the need for user-editable wiki
   * design patterns for pkgsrc: e.g., how to fetch from a certain git commit
   * hey, let's take some time as a group and merge `pkgsrc.org` into
   ### Jaap Boender: OCaml packages
   * OCaml has a build system akin to Haskell's "cabal"
   * would like to factor it out, not sure how best to do that
   * (I was busy prepping a talk)
   ### Justin Cormack: cross-compiling
   * with `qemu`, non-native binaries can run from `./configure` and the like
   * syscall emulation
   * (I'm still prepping a talk)
   ### Sevan Janiyan: Mac OS X `powerpc`
   * GCC>4.4 doesn't build with XCode
   * he's managed to get up to 4.7 now
   * next thing GCC 4.8 and then he'll be able to build stuff
   * (I'm still prepping)
   ### Matthias Scheler: world's best ISP
   * XKCD 806
   * (still prepping)
   ### Sebastian Wiedenroth: merging trivial fixes
   * (still prepping)
   ### S.P. Zeidler: packaging for TNF servers
   * to be installed on TNF servers, it must be in pkgsrc
   * if it might ever run as root, it must be built on certain protected systems
   * `pkg_chk_(8)` for seeing what needs to be built
   * packages are built in `pkg_comp(8)` with sets matching arch and NetBSD version
   * then they're transferred to the destination systems and `pkg_add(8)`ed
   * vulnerabilities detected with `pkg_admin audit`
   * (missed some details)
   ### Stephen Borrill: building products with NetBSD and pkgsrc
   * based on 2007 EuroBSDCon presentation
   * thin clients
   ## Amitai Schlair: "pkgsrc design goals"
   * blah blah blah
   * slides forthcoming
   ## Dinner: Gourmet Garden
   * `jperkin`
   * Calum
   * Youri
   * `abs`
   * `justin`
   * `jaapb`
   * `alnsn`
   * Sevan
   * `bsiegert` and wife and cute kid
   * `mlelstv`
   * `tron`
   * `spz`
   * `prlw1`
   * `wiedi`
   * that fellow I didn't recognize and haven't gotten to meet
   * `sborrill`
   * `morr`
 # Sunday  # Sunday
   ## Hackathon
   ### Ideas
   #### Merge `pkgsrc.org` into `wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/`
   7. `cvs checkout wiki.netbsd.org:/home/pkgwiki/pkgsrc-wiki.cvs`
   7. `cvs checkout wiki.netbsd.org:/cvsroot`
   7. (./) Enable ikiwiki's localstyle plugin
   7. (./) Copy pkgsrc-wiki's `local.css` into `wikisrc/pkgsrc`
   7. (./) Catch up our custom `page.tmpl` to the basewiki's so localstyle works
   7. Figure out how to apply the `pkgsrc.org` logo and header-links
      template to everything under `wikisrc/pkgsrc/`
       * We can wrap a _single_ page in a custom template [like
       * We can modify templates for entire subtrees, but only [outside
       * Can we do it with CSS?
   7. Where do we put the pages that are currently under `pkgsrc/`?
   7. Copy content from the former to the latter (under `pkgsrc/`)
   7. Preview at <http://wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/>
   7. Point `{www.,}pkgsrc.org` at that HTML directory
   #### Merge `blog.netbsd.org` into `wiki.netbsd.org/blog/` (or so)
   7. What was the original goal of powering the blog with Roller?
       * To have a blog, and
       * To counter the misconception that NetBSD doesn't run Java
         well (or at all)...
       * By demonstrating that NetBSD runs Java (and well)
   7. How well have we met that goal?
       * It's hardly obvious to passersby that the blog is Java-powered
       * It's somewhat annoying to admin (and few of us know how)
   7. Could we get more of the intended marketing benefit for less admin cost?
       * Document loudly (e.g., on the wiki) how NetBSD supports Java
       * Publish the blog with a CMS we already happily admin and use (ikiwiki)
   7. Would anyone feel strongly opposed to the change?
       * Not that we can think of (but we'll find out)
   7. Would anyone be particularly happy about the change?
       * Yes, some members of `admins` and `www`
   7. What functionality is important to preserve when migrating?
       * Data: articles and comments (stored as HTML in database)
       * Metadata: dates, ordering, relation of comments to posts
       * Feeds: feed URLs, UUIDs
       * Media: include images in posts
       * Commentspam: lock post after N months, no URLs, easy manual delete
   7. What admin-facing functionality would change?
       * Accounts: Kerberos suffices, no more blog-specific accounts
   7. What do admins need to feel more comfortable with more ikiwiki?
       * More documentation and training
   #### Integrate `joerg`'s C wrappers
   7. `hg clone ssh://ftp.netbsd.org/~joerg/cwrapper`
   7. Figure out how to get pkgsrc to use them
   7. Commit on a branch
   7. Do one bulk build on `HEAD` and one on your branch
   7. Let's see how it went
   #### `[schmonz]` Merge hard-coded pkgsrcCon 2013 site into `wiki.netbsd.org`
   7. Get a local copy of everything
   7. Fix up template
   7. Get previous sites to not break (maybe not editable)
   7. Commit to `pkgwiki`
   #### Fix `pkgtools/pkg_regress` tests
   7. The one that was still passing, do we believe that? Can we make it break?
   7. The ones that are failing, can we understand them and make them pass?
   7. Let's think of something else worth testing and write a new test for it
   7. Do we feel good about adding more such tests and encouraging
      everyone to do so? If not, what do we need to improve before we
      do that?
   #### Write an initial pkgsrc "product backlog"
   7. Starting with the work we need to do to make it easier to develop
      pkgsrc internals
   7. Further down, the developer features we want pkgsrc to have
   7. Further down, the user features we want pkgsrc to have
   #### Debug why just-in-time `su` sometimes doesn't
   7. It seems to be working just about all the time for nearly everyone
   7. It doesn't work for `schmonz` in this case:
       * `mail/qmail` (which is not `user-destdir`, only `destdir`)
       * on Mac OS X 10.9.3 (haven't tried other systems)
       * `make package`
   7. It does work for `schmonz` in this similar-looking case:
       * `mail/relay-ctrl` (also only `destdir`)
       * on Mac OS X 10.9.3
       * `make package`
 [[!meta title="pkgsrcCon 2014: notes and scratchings"]]  [[!meta title="pkgsrcCon 2014: notes and scratchings"]]

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